Burnt Empires
Mar. 25th, 2007 01:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bluegargantuaHi,
So in a sudden whirlwind of activity we finished up the Burning Empires game I was running. It was a little unexpected, but I think there was a general consensus that it was time to go balls out and put everything on the line. I think we also decided that Burning Empires has some serious problems.
I'll be happy to point out that it was a first for all of us and BE has a few unique ideas that distinguish it from other RPGs. So it's quite possible that we didn't quite "get" all the rules, but I think that only highlights the fact that maybe the book doesn't clearly communicate what it needed to. We had some procedural/rule-nit things that we didn't do right, but it was larger issue stuff that really bogged it down.
Here's the main deal: The game works on two levels, the overall strategic level where the body-stealing Vaylen invade your planet and the tactical level where you, the PCs do stuff to fight them off. Both sides of the Strategic level essentially have hit points and at the end of each session of play, you make a roll to see if you affect the other side's hit points in any way. Once you take a side to zero, that strategic phase is over and one side wins. There are three phases and the winner of the third phase decides who conquers the planet.
OK, great. It's neat that there are different ways to view the conflict. The problem is that there is absolutely no tie whatsoever between what you do in the tactical level and what you do on the strategic level. So you can be winning, winning, winning on the tactical level, but you can still completely lose out on the stategic level. You can, in fact, lose the whole game. So it was hard to muster up a lot of deep interest in the tactical level when the overall outcome is decided without any input from it. That probably contributed a great deal to some of my initial reluctance to be an active opponent. It was easier to sit back and take just enough small chances and just grind them out at a Strategic level.
The other big problem is that we're pretty sure that the system for running Firefights has an optimal solution. The idea is that both sides pick a series of moves and counter-moves and then dice off to reduce the other side's disposition (i.e. hit points). In Burning Wheel (the fantasy counterpart to Burning Empires) this is a really slick system for one-on-one duels. There's a wide range of moves and every move has an effective counter. In BE, the paper-rock-scissors system that should be present isn't. One maneuver (Flank) is almost always the best option to take in every circumstance and there's no counter maneuver that effectively negates it and forces you to change up your strategy. Since the final stage of the game covers the full-blown Invasion where open warfare and Firefights will be the norm, then we were facing an unending series of fights that would basically look the same.
I wouldn't say the game was a total loss, there were lots of great moments in there, but the strategic/tactical disconnect and the paucity of choice in the combat system means that it's probably not going to get run again any time soon. I will say that Burning Wheel (the fantasy version) is a pretty solid system and I've heard good things from local groups that are playing it, so you might want to check that out.
Also, thanks once again to my brave players. It was a lot of fun and you didn't even have to nuke your own planet.
later
Tom
So in a sudden whirlwind of activity we finished up the Burning Empires game I was running. It was a little unexpected, but I think there was a general consensus that it was time to go balls out and put everything on the line. I think we also decided that Burning Empires has some serious problems.
I'll be happy to point out that it was a first for all of us and BE has a few unique ideas that distinguish it from other RPGs. So it's quite possible that we didn't quite "get" all the rules, but I think that only highlights the fact that maybe the book doesn't clearly communicate what it needed to. We had some procedural/rule-nit things that we didn't do right, but it was larger issue stuff that really bogged it down.
Here's the main deal: The game works on two levels, the overall strategic level where the body-stealing Vaylen invade your planet and the tactical level where you, the PCs do stuff to fight them off. Both sides of the Strategic level essentially have hit points and at the end of each session of play, you make a roll to see if you affect the other side's hit points in any way. Once you take a side to zero, that strategic phase is over and one side wins. There are three phases and the winner of the third phase decides who conquers the planet.
OK, great. It's neat that there are different ways to view the conflict. The problem is that there is absolutely no tie whatsoever between what you do in the tactical level and what you do on the strategic level. So you can be winning, winning, winning on the tactical level, but you can still completely lose out on the stategic level. You can, in fact, lose the whole game. So it was hard to muster up a lot of deep interest in the tactical level when the overall outcome is decided without any input from it. That probably contributed a great deal to some of my initial reluctance to be an active opponent. It was easier to sit back and take just enough small chances and just grind them out at a Strategic level.
The other big problem is that we're pretty sure that the system for running Firefights has an optimal solution. The idea is that both sides pick a series of moves and counter-moves and then dice off to reduce the other side's disposition (i.e. hit points). In Burning Wheel (the fantasy counterpart to Burning Empires) this is a really slick system for one-on-one duels. There's a wide range of moves and every move has an effective counter. In BE, the paper-rock-scissors system that should be present isn't. One maneuver (Flank) is almost always the best option to take in every circumstance and there's no counter maneuver that effectively negates it and forces you to change up your strategy. Since the final stage of the game covers the full-blown Invasion where open warfare and Firefights will be the norm, then we were facing an unending series of fights that would basically look the same.
I wouldn't say the game was a total loss, there were lots of great moments in there, but the strategic/tactical disconnect and the paucity of choice in the combat system means that it's probably not going to get run again any time soon. I will say that Burning Wheel (the fantasy version) is a pretty solid system and I've heard good things from local groups that are playing it, so you might want to check that out.
Also, thanks once again to my brave players. It was a lot of fun and you didn't even have to nuke your own planet.
later
Tom
