Dear My Subconscious

[bluegargantua]

Hey,

Guess what? You actually graduated from college. Made par on the course even. So there's no reason to spend all morning dreaming about how I'm trying to finish my senior year now, at this late date. Further, the whole "waking up but not really schtick" gets old after about the third or fourth time.

Also, The Enterprise has teleporters and Imperial Star Destroyers don't, but I concur with your overall assessment that the Enterprise is toast in a stand-up fight.

In other news: Happy New Years! Only 19 days until everything is magically better again.
Tom

Comments

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

That's why they wouldn't have a stand-up fight. The Enterprise can lay down a barrage of photon torpeodes while traveling faster than light, and ISDs have no capacity to hit FTL targets.

[shiffer.livejournal.com]

In the entire history of Star Trek it has never once been implied that anyone there has the slightest grasp of tactics.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Well, Kirk is a moron, certainly. Picard's pretty good when he gets a decent writer.

[m0rgen.livejournal.com]

Tactics, perhaps. How about AIs? The Enterprise has at least one running around the ship, and something that acts remarkably like one running the ship. Why does the only thing that possibly has the reaction time for relativistic combat not have fire control? If the ship computer ran stuff, the first word anyone would have of a space battle would be either the evasive maneuver around a rapidly expanding cloud of debris, or their own sudden deaths.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

It depends on how much knowledge the Federation commander has going in. The Empire's contact policy is belligerent, and the ISD commander is likely to fire before the Enterprise commander exhausts the diplomatic playbook. Then it's a question of whether the Enterprise's shields can dissipate enough energy in the first exhange--I know Worf and Picard were openly contemptuous of laser fire in TNG, but that was from a vessel smaller than theirs, and the ISD's main batteries are turbolasers, (whatever that means.)

Also, if the ISD commander opens with a tractor beam, then we get to discuss how much power each ship can generate! Star Trek technology is flat-out better than Star Wars tech, but an ISD is two and a half times bigger than the Enterprise.

[shiffer.livejournal.com]

Let's not forget how the Enterprise's drive nacelles are set up in relation to the hull. The ISD will probably tractor the saucer, at which point firing up the drives at full power might just tear the ship apart.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Does a tractor beam apply force in a gradient, as a physical contact would, or is it transferred uniformly across the affected mass, as a field? (So, is it a surface force or a body force?)

ETA: fixed mah grammatical parallelism.

[shiffer.livejournal.com]

The ST kind ostensibly applies surface force. I feel safe in assuming the SW kind is not more advanced, and would do the same (a consistent physical universe between the two is not a given, but we will have to assume one for this discussion).

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Okay.

In that case, it's a question of how quickly the Structural Integrity Field (really; the Enterprise D can't support its own weight when under the influence of gravity, so instead of handwaving super-materials, they handwaved a magic field that holds the ship together) will buckle and allow the nacelle section to tear free.

One would think the ISD commander would assume the saucer section is a decoy, akin to a lizard dropping its tail, because who would be stupid enough to put non-combatants in a vessel with only sublight capability and a bare minimum of shielding?

[rabidfangurl.livejournal.com]

One would think the ISD commander would assume the saucer section is a decoy, akin to a lizard dropping its tail, because who would be stupid enough to put non-combatants in a vessel with only sublight capability and a bare minimum of shielding?

I think it depends on the paranoia level of the commander; Vader or Thrawn would have the whole thing dragged in just in case, while someone else might ignore the saucer. Unless of course the Enterprise had opened fire at any point, in which case it would be clear that the weapons were on the saucer and it needed to be captured, too.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Well, Vader could just tell with the Force that the saucer section was full of 12-year-olds and xenobotanists. Thrawn would, I dunno, derive the purpose of everything the Federation ever did based on the lines of the Enterprise.

(Tom, all these people you don't know are commenting because I linked to you.)

[shiffer.livejournal.com]

The Enterprise also has shields, but the star destroyer has actual weapons (not to mention an air wing). So I concur with you assessment, but you lose points just for bringing it up :)

[kadath.livejournal.com]

The Enterprise can probably generate and route power fast enough that the TIEs' quad lasers [ETA: wait, TIEs don't even have quads] will just plink off their shields, unless the ISD commander has totally saturated space with the things.

I maintain it's a question of which commander realizes what the hell is going on first. The Enterprise can't beat a Star Destroyer, but it can get away from one.

(THIS IS THE BEST JANUARY 1ST I HAVE EVER HAD.)

[shiffer.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the Enterprise's shields can withstand the first barrage from the ISD, but those things have a habit of getting whittled down quickly and the ISD can keep the pressure up indefinitely. At this point the TIEs also become a lot more effective (though seriously, do they not have missiles on those things?).

The Enterprise can't beat a Star Destroyer, but it can get away from one.

Definitely.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Vanilla TIEs are unshielded crap with shit weapons. The Enterprise's phaser banks could one-hit them, and Enterprise's computer could range and hit more quickly than the pilots could react. If the ISD has a squadron of TIE/ads or TIE/Ds, both of which have shields and missiles, they'd give the Enterprise more trouble.

The computing resources available to the Enterprise are a distinct advantage--Star Wars computer tech is barely-extrapolated late 70s, and TNG computers are extrapolated late 80s.

Captain Dirk of the ISS "Engineering Solution"

[dirkcjelli.livejournal.com]

"Ram their bridge and commence boarding, Commander."

[dirkcjelli.livejournal.com]

(also: the Enterprise goes down to the equivalent of "ion weapons" every time.)

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, ion cannons.

...I'm not clear how an "ion cannon" is different from a "blaster," since PLASMA IS A BUNCH OF FUCKING IONS.

[aleksandyr.livejournal.com]

Ion fire is blue, and blaster fire is red. Turbolasers are green. Obvious.

(Did they EVER explain that?)

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Nuh-uh! Turbolasers are green for the good guys and red-orange for the bad guys!

I believe in the in-universe explanation has to do with different "blaster gas" mixtures in different models of gun.

The real reason, of course, is so the audience can tell who's shootin' whom.

[rabidfangurl.livejournal.com]

Wild guess: blasters = focused plasma, while ion cannons = more dispersed electrical/ion field.

One is designed to punch a hole in things, while the other is designed to envelope the whole structure.

Either that, or "ion cannon" is the SW way of saying "EMP gun."

[euphoric-goth.livejournal.com]

Ion Cannon is, indeed, the SW way of saying "EMP gun".

Carry on.

[galbinus-caeli.livejournal.com]

Fire control seems to be a very key point. The Enterprise rarely misses what it aims at, an ISD seems to shoot generally in the direction of the enemy hoping that saturation will yield a hit. If the Enterprise can keep moving it should do fine.

[rabidfangurl.livejournal.com]

Well, I think that depends on the composition of the troops on the ISD. If Vader's in command, those troops better be able to hit the broad side of a barn, while a run-of-the-mill ISD would have a lesser chance of hitting what they're aiming at.

[neuromancerzss.livejournal.com]

If Vader's in command the ship will have an unusually green command structure.

[mikecap.livejournal.com]

Well done sire, you have spawned yet another Internet nerd discussion...

[kadath.livejournal.com]

This conversation is THE REASON THE INTERNET EXISTS.

[jenaflynn.livejournal.com]

19 days until what exactly?

[bluegargantua]

Inauguration day is Jan 20th (I think).

later
Tom

[foxtown.livejournal.com]

I still get those dreams too. Even though I went through another level of schooling I still harken back to college.